From MAILER-DAEMON Thu Nov 07 16:43:09 2024 Received: from list by lists.fsf.org with archive (Exim 4.90_1) id 1t9AHU-0008AM-Qn for mharc-tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2024 16:43:09 -0500 Received: from mail.fsf.org ([2001:470:142::13]) by lists.fsf.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t8KKW-0001pV-OD for tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 09:14:48 -0500 Received: from cyberdimension.org ([79.143.250.36] helo=rockpro64.cyberdimension.org) by mail.fsf.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_X25519__RSA_PSS_RSAE_SHA512__CHACHA20_POLY1305:256) (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1t8KKV-00HYJp-1I for tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 09:14:48 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; s=dkim; bh=EFnXgG/0MfLpKFu opUsF6QJU1l3PPJKwEisplgIKrAc=; h=references:in-reply-to:date:subject: cc:to:from; d=cyberdimension.org; b=q8NwwR1HFqIs3NUCxNtCWB7ZS8/zbbyj9i F8sAzLSvco/vXImEWFKOuCwZL3DUgDbRLcfdjMCtc9GlgWlP0EEYFeBrJ7c7F9Hgnw2pC5 wOobGCkbgcfwy/0TsLoWUM/vz5qHib9GMq7V69Edn25gmazORd3tmdzbWQo0RZD7neFq2Z bW4Nd68IFKQpE39P5rAFbNob7auHIKlKD4n5A84vtpjBudEbBh2lOIsr3rjOh7A0B0HNaE A/qoM+pKXgFvqqXyIrOKCJTvkADhrgQ+V0d+k73mSpCd7LtpSvQi0eQk0NZ6y+gRmp1aAl WcuDqyYsjCNAdLBAUKY+n2F3DkdQ== Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rockpro64.cyberdimension.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 4db4882f; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 14:14:36 +0000 (UTC) From: Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli To: tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org Cc: Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli Subject: [PATCH v1 06/11] FSF: hardware: graphics-card: Nvidia: Warn about nonfree software. Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2024 15:14:28 +0100 Message-ID: <20241105141433.27944-7-GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org> X-Mailer: git-send-email 2.46.0 In-Reply-To: <20241105141433.27944-1-GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org> References: <20241105141433.27944-1-GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=79.143.250.36; envelope-from=GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org; helo=rockpro64.cyberdimension.org X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 07 Nov 2024 16:43:08 -0500 X-BeenThere: tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2024 14:14:49 -0000 Signed-off-by: Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli --- sviki/fsf/hardware/graphics-cards.mdwn | 15 ++++++++++++++- 1 file changed, 14 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-) diff --git a/sviki/fsf/hardware/graphics-cards.mdwn b/sviki/fsf/hardware/graphics-cards.mdwn index 185d99e..0ddd4e3 100644 --- a/sviki/fsf/hardware/graphics-cards.mdwn +++ b/sviki/fsf/hardware/graphics-cards.mdwn @@ -29,7 +29,20 @@ non-libre for our needs. ## Nvidia - +Nvidia graphics card or chip require nonfree software to work: + + * If the display works during the boot (in GRUB for instance) it + means that the boot software (the BIOS/UEFI, etc) ran the nonfree + video BIOS that is stored on a memory chip inside the graphic card. + + * The nvidia driver need to load and run some bytecode that is also + stored somewhere in the memory chip of the graphic card. + +Beside the video BIOS issue, another question is if these cards works +in free distros. + +See for how to +identify the family of an Nvidia card. We have many of such cards, some of which seem to basically work, but are unstable, some of which are rock solid, and others that are unknown due to -- 2.46.0 From MAILER-DAEMON Thu Nov 07 16:43:12 2024 Received: from list by lists.fsf.org with archive (Exim 4.90_1) id 1t9AHX-0008At-8J for mharc-tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2024 16:43:12 -0500 Received: from mail.fsf.org ([2001:470:142::13]) by lists.fsf.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t8KKY-0001q2-TM for tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 09:14:51 -0500 Received: from cyberdimension.org ([79.143.250.36] helo=rockpro64.cyberdimension.org) by mail.fsf.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_X25519__RSA_PSS_RSAE_SHA512__CHACHA20_POLY1305:256) (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1t8KKX-00HYJp-0B for tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 09:14:50 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; s=dkim; bh=f/W7TJljnxayYU8 BPcI2G8PwQqF7wve2XahvqAIhABg=; h=references:in-reply-to:date:subject: cc:to:from; d=cyberdimension.org; b=ZtYcJIt8VyX7KNw0xlCLj5ICM6W06mf+DZ teltzudbE4ol6mLWc0sei7Ejmn4WlypdtEBPwYgAsyq9JtbKOLDy/X0X66SHPCPtarbjZ+ akmuaEnctIL/oH886QGa/c3N5VkcQuscsRMANKOD7snPwAZrEMx5J67ZglNvtRjd5Ti5we bW3Rzc7vrDGdmrkp6Eh1cLx/hNz/Ue6Ah5bajLlhtkqwEE/98nn6Wk1IdllH+8k1nTca0Y MZhSvpp9DpSBUah3/BaZczw1yTiR64csLhMh3MCGRYfzuhy4wbXmBSLL8vEtUMtQBsukfT Ian30bYLDF0iH5Z76lPZ8jAF9SpA== Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rockpro64.cyberdimension.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 1df37870; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 14:14:37 +0000 (UTC) From: Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli To: tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org Cc: Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli Subject: [PATCH v1 10/11] FSF: hardware: disable option roms: improve flashrom commands. Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2024 15:14:32 +0100 Message-ID: <20241105141433.27944-11-GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org> X-Mailer: git-send-email 2.46.0 In-Reply-To: <20241105141433.27944-1-GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org> References: <20241105141433.27944-1-GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=79.143.250.36; envelope-from=GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org; helo=rockpro64.cyberdimension.org X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 07 Nov 2024 16:43:08 -0500 X-BeenThere: tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2024 14:14:51 -0000 Using iomem=relaxed is potentially dangerous[1] and not very convenient (it requires to add a kernel parameter and reboot if it's not already done). [1]The lpc_ich driver claims the PCI device that flashrom uses. Using iomem=relaxed enables the kernel and flashrom to step on each other toes which is extremely dangerous if that happens. A better solution is simply to remove the lpc_ich driver while the flashing is being done. In addition on some ThinkPads since quite some time, flashrom will complain about "multiple flash chip definitions" due to a vendor having reused the same device ID for different chips. Signed-off-by: Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli --- .../disable-option-roms-with-cbfstool.mdwn | 22 ++++++++++++++++++- 1 file changed, 21 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-) diff --git a/sviki/fsf/hardware/disable-option-roms-with-cbfstool.mdwn b/sviki/fsf/hardware/disable-option-roms-with-cbfstool.mdwn index ce803a6..06cc1fa 100644 --- a/sviki/fsf/hardware/disable-option-roms-with-cbfstool.mdwn +++ b/sviki/fsf/hardware/disable-option-roms-with-cbfstool.mdwn @@ -57,10 +57,27 @@ Downloading the rom from the machine itself is a good approach so you don't have to worry about **setting the MAC address** to a non-generic value before writing the patched rom. -If you are able to boot to GNU/Linux on the device: +If you are able to boot to GNU/Linux on the device you can use flashrom. + +To do that, first if you are on Intel computer, you need to run the +following command: + + rmmod lpc_ich + +And then you can simply use the usual flashrom command: flashrom -p internal -r gnuboot.rom +Or if you are on a ThinkPad X200 with a flash chip of 8MiB and that it +complains about multiple flash chip definitions: + + flashrom -p internal -c MX25L6405D -r gnuboot.rom + +And if you have the same issue and that you are on ThinkPad X200 with +a flash chip of 4MiB instead: + + flashrom -p internal -c MX25L3205D -r gnuboot.rom + ## patch the LibreBoot or GNU Boot ROM > *Controls option ROM execution for roms found on PCI devices (as opposed to @@ -96,4 +113,7 @@ If you are booted into GNU/Linux on the device: flashrom -p internal -w gnuboot.rom +and if it complains about multiple flash chip definitions, see the +commands above for the ThinkPad X200. + Do a shutdown, then a cold boot. -- 2.46.0 From MAILER-DAEMON Thu Nov 07 16:43:14 2024 Received: from list by lists.fsf.org with archive (Exim 4.90_1) id 1t9AHY-0008BC-Ro for mharc-tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2024 16:43:13 -0500 Received: from mail.fsf.org ([2001:470:142::13]) by lists.fsf.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t8KKV-0001of-2k for tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 09:14:47 -0500 Received: from cyberdimension.org ([2001:678:938:3ff::36] helo=rockpro64.cyberdimension.org) by mail.fsf.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_X25519__RSA_PSS_RSAE_SHA512__CHACHA20_POLY1305:256) (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1t8KKR-00HYJj-Re for tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 09:14:46 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; s=dkim; bh=uQYkEfu7tL8telz 12mURd1YjRDmH3NILB+1gTrYYDtQ=; h=references:in-reply-to:date:subject: cc:to:from; d=cyberdimension.org; b=m0YlI9e8KagctK5Kp2FthtgHhN2/ZUP5BL EPEH7bBur8aEktq2cNjB2sX5G7l/bJnjm2KlfdcuzkByuslVLUo/arf6+MClpMVdQ77jkO 40g6+sxjDR/fgOI9NyFBYeLO9gvxYei+gvaQX2+4e5S3DHOEIW68KKPK8S+UifyNSZ6/ZK brLaGPnRGSsudqR4mHKJ6g/QC/0uZbN7EGmgN58/39M5/ddys8KF18aHST+JKdwC/vYQ4J MEmHG7wzNT2eAzNLMOYsHX2T+mbfW5q8wXsGYPFOsiRCAsOJH4L20uYJ7YPTw8XQbmHtnW cP7vG2CaeemPpzywc0Srs/ZLw5tg== Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rockpro64.cyberdimension.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 8127151b; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 14:14:35 +0000 (UTC) From: Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli To: tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org Cc: Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli Subject: [PATCH v1 02/11] FSF: explain how to test contributions. Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2024 15:14:24 +0100 Message-ID: <20241105141433.27944-3-GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org> X-Mailer: git-send-email 2.46.0 In-Reply-To: <20241105141433.27944-1-GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org> References: <20241105141433.27944-1-GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2001:678:938:3ff::36; envelope-from=GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org; helo=rockpro64.cyberdimension.org X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 07 Nov 2024 16:43:08 -0500 X-BeenThere: tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2024 14:14:48 -0000 Signed-off-by: Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli --- sviki/fsf.mdwn | 6 ++++++ 1 file changed, 6 insertions(+) diff --git a/sviki/fsf.mdwn b/sviki/fsf.mdwn index becd2b8..f43d209 100644 --- a/sviki/fsf.mdwn +++ b/sviki/fsf.mdwn @@ -77,6 +77,12 @@ section|HowToAdminThisWiki#One-off-contributions]] of the HowToAdminThisWiki page, and how to send a patch is explained here: . +In case you also want to test the contributions, there is also [some +documentation on the ikiwiki +website](https://ikiwiki.info/setup/byhand/) on how to make ikiwiki +generate the web pages locally that you can then host with a simple +web server (to localhost for instance). + Some documentation is somewhat duplicative of other sources like a man page, and it is here because it is the excerpt that FSF tech team or FSF volunteers found useful. So, if you aren't doing FSF volunteering, a -- 2.46.0 From MAILER-DAEMON Thu Nov 07 16:43:16 2024 Received: from list by lists.fsf.org with archive (Exim 4.90_1) id 1t9AHb-0008C0-QY for mharc-tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2024 16:43:15 -0500 Received: from mail.fsf.org ([2001:470:142::13]) by lists.fsf.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t8KKT-0001oc-I1 for tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 09:14:47 -0500 Received: from cyberdimension.org ([2001:678:938:3ff::36] helo=rockpro64.cyberdimension.org) by mail.fsf.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_X25519__RSA_PSS_RSAE_SHA512__CHACHA20_POLY1305:256) (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1t8KKQ-00HYJR-Td for tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 09:14:45 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; s=dkim; bh=uwmHCb+HjDLsSb4 yPi4hEZH4bCjKNo+PZwqTWsz7KR0=; h=date:subject:cc:to:from; d=cyberdimension.org; b=qd0RC9gr9IVnJKicJUkWixlvFv3cGK99DMzD+cMOVzypVQ dO15UJVAHcFmzglvQOZCN37qjU4sPs0qw3VGFIKRPx6JWCj5f8Uwh1tg2Ql9BhWEKm/HGj P1GZhbGEScr5jCBdL3CSPdyPvF97aUKt4mAoGK9meJk096OO30mG5IGdsOoilGooYW50/7 IED1cNTkE3kchbKaHRTd92vpZ/C1P4JUUNOHz8iGSCBdJCdWMEJH0SLvgk63xsJLIGKwjn qzggJ+/k2fHe9StOtt6kBXyr7Wfx/XWTFFy+T/s5/2StIdg+AW4yCO5GyBPg8jeKRgEjLt dkhlcVEZG7QKw+mQ== Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rockpro64.cyberdimension.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 66b3c05f; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 14:14:35 +0000 (UTC) From: Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli To: tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org Cc: Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli Subject: [PATCH v1 00/11] FSF sysadmin wiki patches for GPUs Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2024 15:14:22 +0100 Message-ID: <20241105141433.27944-1-GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org> X-Mailer: git-send-email 2.46.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2001:678:938:3ff::36; envelope-from=GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org; helo=rockpro64.cyberdimension.org X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 07 Nov 2024 16:43:08 -0500 X-BeenThere: tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2024 14:14:48 -0000 Hi, I found that the sysadmin wiki had interesting information on how to deal with GPUs, especially the SeaBIOS settings. In addition it also has information on cards that are being used in production at the FSF with free software boot firmwares distributions. In GNU Boot we are in the process of merging a GNU Boot manual (the patches for that are being reviewed as I'm writing these lines) and since the FSF sysadmin wiki has already interesting information on GPUs, at least for now, we'd like to point to the sysadmin wiki for information on what GPUs to use or how to limit the damage of nonfree software when using these GPUs. However the sysadmin wiki is not really meant for something like that, so I've also improved a bit the documentation and added a bit more context for less technical users (I hope that it's OK), and documented better how to contribute to it. In the long run I also think that pointing to the sysadmin wiki for the information on Nvidia GPUs is a good idea since the information on what works or doesn't work is being maintained by the FSF sysadmins, but in the longer run we might need to dicsuss where to put what information. Also note that there is also the LibrePlanet wiki for instance or other possible upstreams that could be relevant in the discussion. This patch set is based on the following commit: commit 4b2e67bed3ccb237ddc2b06f84f918042681440b (origin/trunk) Author: ineiev Date: Wed Oct 16 17:09:57 2024 +0000 minor updates git-svn-id: svn://svn.savannah.gnu.org/administration/trunk@813 5ecdb765-02dd-4c57-8fbe-78b8e0997f05 And here's where Git.mdwn is on my git-svn checkout: $ find -name Git.mdwn ./sviki/Git.mdwn I tested the patches by deploying them on my local ikiwiki instance with the following command and looked at it with a web browser (on http://localhost/ikiwiki/[...]): $ sudo ikiwiki . /srv/http/ikiwiki/ --url=localhost/ikiwiki Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli (11): FSF: clarify how to contribute. FSF: explain how to test contributions. FSF: hardware: graphics-card: Intel: fix typo. FSF: hardware: graphics-card: Intel: Update and clarify. FSF: hardware: graphics-card: Update AMD status. FSF: hardware: graphics-card: Nvidia: Warn about nonfree software. FSF: hardware: graphics-card: Add possible lead with nouveau instabilities. FSF: hardware: graphics-card: Add section about other card vendors. FSF: hardware: disable option roms: update and point hardware/graphics-card to it. FSF: hardware: disable option roms: improve flashrom commands. FSF: hardware: disable option roms: clarify shutdown / cold boot. sviki/HowToAdminThisWiki.mdwn | 4 +- sviki/fsf.mdwn | 19 +++- .../disable-option-roms-with-cbfstool.mdwn | 81 ++++++++++++---- sviki/fsf/hardware/graphics-cards.mdwn | 96 ++++++++++++++++--- 4 files changed, 164 insertions(+), 36 deletions(-) base-commit: 4b2e67bed3ccb237ddc2b06f84f918042681440b -- 2.46.0 From MAILER-DAEMON Thu Nov 07 16:43:16 2024 Received: from list by lists.fsf.org with archive (Exim 4.90_1) id 1t9AHc-0008C7-B4 for mharc-tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2024 16:43:16 -0500 Received: from mail.fsf.org ([2001:470:142::13]) by lists.fsf.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t8KKV-0001p9-SQ for tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 09:14:47 -0500 Received: from cyberdimension.org ([2001:678:938:3ff::36] helo=rockpro64.cyberdimension.org) by mail.fsf.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_X25519__RSA_PSS_RSAE_SHA512__CHACHA20_POLY1305:256) (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1t8KKT-00HYJR-Oc for tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 09:14:47 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; s=dkim; bh=jpnf5C94eMzSM+2 bIFyf4ZzAAKR17fVuKj44+XGpSVE=; h=references:in-reply-to:date:subject: cc:to:from; d=cyberdimension.org; b=INQh9VRgl9gQ2JJKtbOzoKsAnkIKOE5k4i bGSmX3oUZIZkDYq2dpFnqa2fBwk4mBxo378L9BXo8C6D5IyPqNN4bPwqGEr6Dko//Wz4rI 5pijND1kK+GN0HInXTDKQ2XSBy1Bqy0NOvpsZNQO17jaKNSX++Qz1yTxYacZyKModgi4ak 5G0btqVjUP1nYnlIFaSnugEcZ/vkKPDasjgsEC3JDsumd0UiBIh4ayXbki1wpncAmZdV9r Fx9b1yvpr5SJKCIw+4bgw7UeoKJenYwo3J8DVLUxA1OSXXHnXil3gDK2VZzJlOGXPiigvI 9rQ4YwEXy23pNx2v/khAAdDAfZGA== Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rockpro64.cyberdimension.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 2c510f0a; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 14:14:36 +0000 (UTC) From: Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli To: tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org Cc: Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli Subject: [PATCH v1 04/11] FSF: hardware: graphics-card: Intel: Update and clarify. Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2024 15:14:26 +0100 Message-ID: <20241105141433.27944-5-GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org> X-Mailer: git-send-email 2.46.0 In-Reply-To: <20241105141433.27944-1-GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org> References: <20241105141433.27944-1-GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2001:678:938:3ff::36; envelope-from=GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org; helo=rockpro64.cyberdimension.org X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 07 Nov 2024 16:43:08 -0500 X-BeenThere: tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2024 14:14:48 -0000 Rationale for the changes: - The most recent laptops that work all have a chipset from the GM45 family. - The section is still the case in 2024. Signed-off-by: Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli --- sviki/fsf/hardware/graphics-cards.mdwn | 13 ++++++++----- 1 file changed, 8 insertions(+), 5 deletions(-) diff --git a/sviki/fsf/hardware/graphics-cards.mdwn b/sviki/fsf/hardware/graphics-cards.mdwn index 61899a8..e41b2c4 100644 --- a/sviki/fsf/hardware/graphics-cards.mdwn +++ b/sviki/fsf/hardware/graphics-cards.mdwn @@ -14,11 +14,14 @@ Contributions are welcome. See . ## Intel -On X200 and other Intel-based laptops, integrated graphics are stable, but on -newer machines, we don't have a free BIOS + ME. (On some Intel Models, like -Pentium, there may be no ME there, but still some non-free firmware). For this -reason, as of 2022, the latest free Intel-based system that the FSF can use is -the X200. +On laptops compatible with Canoeboot or GNU Boot that use the Intel +GM45 chipset family (X200, T400, etc), integrated graphics are stable +and works with fully free software (free BIOS replacement and with the +nonfree Management Engine firmware removed). + +But newer machines require some nonfree code or firmware to boot. For +this reason, as of 2024, the latest free Intel-based system that the +FSF can use is these laptops. A while back, Intel announced that they were creating discreet graphics cards, but it's not clear if those are available, too expensive, overpowered, or -- 2.46.0 From MAILER-DAEMON Thu Nov 07 16:43:09 2024 Received: from list by lists.fsf.org with archive (Exim 4.90_1) id 1t9AHV-0008AS-BG for mharc-tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2024 16:43:09 -0500 Received: from mail.fsf.org ([2001:470:142::13]) by lists.fsf.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t8KKX-0001pk-Q4 for tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 09:14:49 -0500 Received: from cyberdimension.org ([2001:678:938:3ff::36] helo=rockpro64.cyberdimension.org) by mail.fsf.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_X25519__RSA_PSS_RSAE_SHA512__CHACHA20_POLY1305:256) (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1t8KKW-00HYJR-0O for tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 09:14:49 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; s=dkim; bh=BF5Q5CxeMA5VnCO SY6UsxTS0TwfNS9SQXi8oTa2/dc4=; h=references:in-reply-to:date:subject: cc:to:from; d=cyberdimension.org; b=ebdhdtLHn56wqcs88Yxg8HErwz/bDD8DHC UAhnE8onQ7eXtclh6nGcoSrCqM9VCwaWuk9oaUbwLTPgtDvcQhP0X0rznfvJnv5w3Pakfs auhmKLr/nMm+cK6o55I0Ml529eS62cvbT6bbAm9e0RTKVOFSTrZJ86r6jPgZroq2i//xof 0jRk0RPkG5wz/qxwXDADMD2ub3etXmYRhGGMgs2CtV2UH3Kj/ykyoRMnmEq+RQ8MWbNzXd 4dL44gMqQlAKm8Mf8nI4LRkuSr9MBCepyJWJLoudiEaCsosVrjtOkdqkAyLhSXqK0J3N6V K1ebOZA6MPQxzCPXLj22S6/oQKBw== Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rockpro64.cyberdimension.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 9c1d4ee0; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 14:14:36 +0000 (UTC) From: Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli To: tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org Cc: Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli Subject: [PATCH v1 08/11] FSF: hardware: graphics-card: Add section about other card vendors. Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2024 15:14:30 +0100 Message-ID: <20241105141433.27944-9-GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org> X-Mailer: git-send-email 2.46.0 In-Reply-To: <20241105141433.27944-1-GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org> References: <20241105141433.27944-1-GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2001:678:938:3ff::36; envelope-from=GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org; helo=rockpro64.cyberdimension.org X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 07 Nov 2024 16:43:08 -0500 X-BeenThere: tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2024 14:14:50 -0000 Signed-off-by: Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli --- sviki/fsf/hardware/graphics-cards.mdwn | 8 +++++++- 1 file changed, 7 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-) diff --git a/sviki/fsf/hardware/graphics-cards.mdwn b/sviki/fsf/hardware/graphics-cards.mdwn index 2e3834e..a803ddb 100644 --- a/sviki/fsf/hardware/graphics-cards.mdwn +++ b/sviki/fsf/hardware/graphics-cards.mdwn @@ -129,4 +129,10 @@ linux-libre yet, so the only option is to try use the BIOS/UEFI video BIOS instead. The same [radeon article](https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Hardware/Components/GPUs/radeon) and/or the linux-libre mailing list has pointers on how to add support -for the amdgpu driver in linux-libre. \ No newline at end of file +for the amdgpu driver in linux-libre. + +## Other cards + +It might be possible to add graphics support desktop computers with +PCI or PCIe cards from vendors less well known than AMD or Nvidia but +it needs to be researched and tried. \ No newline at end of file -- 2.46.0 From MAILER-DAEMON Thu Nov 07 16:43:17 2024 Received: from list by lists.fsf.org with archive (Exim 4.90_1) id 1t9AHc-0008CR-R0 for mharc-tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2024 16:43:16 -0500 Received: from mail.fsf.org ([2001:470:142::13]) by lists.fsf.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t8KKU-0001oe-Oc for tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 09:14:47 -0500 Received: from cyberdimension.org ([79.143.250.36] helo=rockpro64.cyberdimension.org) by mail.fsf.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_X25519__RSA_PSS_RSAE_SHA512__CHACHA20_POLY1305:256) (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1t8KKS-00HYJp-7i for tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 09:14:46 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; s=dkim; bh=/bar39ETYxOwW2Z ZzFzs8/N+neAlC1L5veo4J6STJEs=; h=references:in-reply-to:date:subject: cc:to:from; d=cyberdimension.org; b=tWgklRltQxDoFqwLgtFTGOKh4zvGT7iS7x raF/5X07FIqHpph6rNdwLVhLfc3Gh4ihhKEmTmtStN7OLugqnuXto7X1qZClmSWX+YAbCV NXr+EAr2NS+UKy+IGdkfkg8iuqIPwYY81Cthmu+0rmcmkNUGlqY+XsecSRzL3dF7qI7cUq sG72F49ddt8t2Z+E3DBsweDL2AgEszuetnfIRLOrKjb2tL7FxmzagsVOaD6hRNfhS5ayGr cZ2GlJEi9QFi3U0tYEPZ7/vSQrbEaFZsJck2sDwixuOk5gtQofTuLn7AnshDhbyIzWWV5A 9k0L8aeGXVi1poQEZKx1VyzJZEiQ== Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rockpro64.cyberdimension.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id d62ae890; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 14:14:35 +0000 (UTC) From: Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli To: tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org Cc: Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli Subject: [PATCH v1 03/11] FSF: hardware: graphics-card: Intel: fix typo. Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2024 15:14:25 +0100 Message-ID: <20241105141433.27944-4-GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org> X-Mailer: git-send-email 2.46.0 In-Reply-To: <20241105141433.27944-1-GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org> References: <20241105141433.27944-1-GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=79.143.250.36; envelope-from=GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org; helo=rockpro64.cyberdimension.org X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 07 Nov 2024 16:43:08 -0500 X-BeenThere: tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2024 14:14:48 -0000 Signed-off-by: Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli --- sviki/fsf/hardware/graphics-cards.mdwn | 2 +- 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-) diff --git a/sviki/fsf/hardware/graphics-cards.mdwn b/sviki/fsf/hardware/graphics-cards.mdwn index 759c04a..61899a8 100644 --- a/sviki/fsf/hardware/graphics-cards.mdwn +++ b/sviki/fsf/hardware/graphics-cards.mdwn @@ -20,7 +20,7 @@ Pentium, there may be no ME there, but still some non-free firmware). For this reason, as of 2022, the latest free Intel-based system that the FSF can use is the X200. -A while back, Intel announced that they were creating discreen graphics cards, +A while back, Intel announced that they were creating discreet graphics cards, but it's not clear if those are available, too expensive, overpowered, or non-libre for our needs. -- 2.46.0 From MAILER-DAEMON Thu Nov 07 16:43:17 2024 Received: from list by lists.fsf.org with archive (Exim 4.90_1) id 1t9AHd-0008Cq-BM for mharc-tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2024 16:43:17 -0500 Received: from mail.fsf.org ([2001:470:142::13]) by lists.fsf.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t8KKW-0001pB-8d for tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 09:14:48 -0500 Received: from cyberdimension.org ([79.143.250.36] helo=rockpro64.cyberdimension.org) by mail.fsf.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_X25519__RSA_PSS_RSAE_SHA512__CHACHA20_POLY1305:256) (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1t8KKT-00HYJU-Pz for tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 09:14:47 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; s=dkim; bh=beI5XhwsvHuxm73 o0wd3mQBavF2tpTDCC/VkAMWdjqo=; h=references:in-reply-to:date:subject: cc:to:from; d=cyberdimension.org; b=A5dm4CgLj070oLQuH6cKaa6uiOucZTJYze 0KW9j2mY1Ltnm7sMhEGVP6TMZFjfNI+uFyru5AGpp+Fd9XfZgq1N4r1NrmcyLIyv+onFXU W8BZiOcU4dQWgGdwSvUZ7mqKE1P9YvIudHuTcJfVDvmAVcmgF8/L/cDnLi5PvXiY5oQW95 VsDz8+XTVRdD2r+NA2qazq2q/KBNmEsM+xTL3fvr3v6sxU6/kf8mN/PrqdhMOi8dW2cd2t m/6ehj4imjoEVkaCqjWbpH/2uwMvxYWoo5wBhtKL0bLEMUt+fQcQ7imSG9Xrb/QCdXchvh AcL6vUOKwX0sNRlFX3FeIw2fOuVg== Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rockpro64.cyberdimension.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 438fb74f; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 14:14:36 +0000 (UTC) From: Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli To: tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org Cc: Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli Subject: [PATCH v1 05/11] FSF: hardware: graphics-card: Update AMD status. Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2024 15:14:27 +0100 Message-ID: <20241105141433.27944-6-GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org> X-Mailer: git-send-email 2.46.0 In-Reply-To: <20241105141433.27944-1-GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org> References: <20241105141433.27944-1-GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=79.143.250.36; envelope-from=GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org; helo=rockpro64.cyberdimension.org X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 07 Nov 2024 16:43:08 -0500 X-BeenThere: tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2024 14:14:48 -0000 Signed-off-by: Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli --- sviki/fsf/hardware/graphics-cards.mdwn | 48 +++++++++++++++++++++----- 1 file changed, 40 insertions(+), 8 deletions(-) diff --git a/sviki/fsf/hardware/graphics-cards.mdwn b/sviki/fsf/hardware/graphics-cards.mdwn index e41b2c4..185d99e 100644 --- a/sviki/fsf/hardware/graphics-cards.mdwn +++ b/sviki/fsf/hardware/graphics-cards.mdwn @@ -69,11 +69,43 @@ submodels don't have decent support, whereas others do. ## AMD -After 2023, most cards work with trisquel 11, and they are more stable -than nvidia cards. They rely much more on cpu for graphic intensive -tasks. - -Before 2023 we could not these, because at least the ones we tested -required loading a non-free firmware blob into the graphics card before -it will do anything. Maybe there is a specific model that has some -functionality before firmware is loaded. +AMD graphics card or chip require nonfree software to work: + + * If the display works during the boot (in GRUB for instance) it + means that the boot software (the BIOS/UEFI, etc) ran the nonfree + video BIOS that is stored on a memory chip inside the graphic card. If + the radeon/amdgpu driver doesn't work, the Linux kernel is also + able to talk to this nonfree software to make the display work. + + * The Radeon and amdgpu Linux drivers need to load and run some + bytecode (called AtomBIOS) that is also stored somewhere in the + memory chip of the graphic card. + +Beside the video BIOS issue, another question is if these cards works +in free distros. + +After 2023, most cards compatible with the radeon driver work with +trisquel 11, and they are more stable than nvidia cards. + +While many feature work like multi-display, there is no GPU +acceleration at all, so the computer will rely on the CPU instead for +graphic intensive tasks. + +See the [radeon +article](https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Hardware/Components/GPUs/radeon) +on the hardware section of the LibrePlanet wiki for more details and +for how to add the missing cards to linux-libre (if you know how to +compile and run a custom kernel, this should be easy for you to do). + +Before 2023 we could not use these, because at least the ones we +tested required loading a non-free firmware blob into the graphics +card before it will do anything. + +Some newer cards compatible with the amdgpu driver instead were not +tested either but if they work they might have serious limitations (no +multi display support) because no one made the amdgpu driver work in +linux-libre yet, so the only option is to try use the BIOS/UEFI video +BIOS instead. The same [radeon +article](https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Hardware/Components/GPUs/radeon) +and/or the linux-libre mailing list has pointers on how to add support +for the amdgpu driver in linux-libre. \ No newline at end of file -- 2.46.0 From MAILER-DAEMON Thu Nov 07 16:43:18 2024 Received: from list by lists.fsf.org with archive (Exim 4.90_1) id 1t9AHd-0008DG-TL for mharc-tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2024 16:43:17 -0500 Received: from mail.fsf.org ([2001:470:142::13]) by lists.fsf.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t8KKW-0001pX-V6 for tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 09:14:48 -0500 Received: from cyberdimension.org ([2001:678:938:3ff::36] helo=rockpro64.cyberdimension.org) by mail.fsf.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_X25519__RSA_PSS_RSAE_SHA512__CHACHA20_POLY1305:256) (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1t8KKV-00HYJj-2n for tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 09:14:48 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; s=dkim; bh=ubXlvjtwjYXHvB8 BNor3ZV1z6ftaU56741kKXMOUHKw=; h=references:in-reply-to:date:subject: cc:to:from; d=cyberdimension.org; b=N96g8E9E7lS4H7klEpY8KtCQY2XYh9fca7 hvvHi/onj1dfMe9pk9v1TGGtpMW3iCARm8BuRbT1k0sM48I11uo/UWO0Bg0iBi3Fgc8/Gr StLDDwqILJ5fpGscVfWmIwYxmLYWknhaQwlhQNO4QFN5HXkTREtwHrMt+3/wOD5JTUHFvS 07ncagCK0HXk4pGqLV868fhbe2m4YpLESi3HwTr4xGSCxHmYTu4eZc/pI6wDaxBfqjT3S4 gqWK9cSMLxhbK3M1iK6MgaYGmt8f9rWCml8dkZgSWweqfGKf2ow6vq29LI2Kiz1bdswrTe tobBYOgBfEGMWJCFJFcY8xPxgvWw== Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rockpro64.cyberdimension.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 76437b2e; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 14:14:36 +0000 (UTC) From: Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli To: tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org Cc: Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli Subject: [PATCH v1 07/11] FSF: hardware: graphics-card: Add possible lead with nouveau instabilities. Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2024 15:14:29 +0100 Message-ID: <20241105141433.27944-8-GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org> X-Mailer: git-send-email 2.46.0 In-Reply-To: <20241105141433.27944-1-GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org> References: <20241105141433.27944-1-GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2001:678:938:3ff::36; envelope-from=GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org; helo=rockpro64.cyberdimension.org X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 07 Nov 2024 16:43:08 -0500 X-BeenThere: tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2024 14:14:49 -0000 Signed-off-by: Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli --- sviki/fsf/hardware/graphics-cards.mdwn | 8 ++++++++ 1 file changed, 8 insertions(+) diff --git a/sviki/fsf/hardware/graphics-cards.mdwn b/sviki/fsf/hardware/graphics-cards.mdwn index 0ddd4e3..2e3834e 100644 --- a/sviki/fsf/hardware/graphics-cards.mdwn +++ b/sviki/fsf/hardware/graphics-cards.mdwn @@ -55,6 +55,14 @@ issues with Trisquel 10, or because those physical instances have had unknown hardware failures. Also, some desktop motherboards may have their own hardware issues. +Also a voulounteer that is using Parabola with a GeForce GT 610 finds +it very unstable, especially when using 2 displays and playing a 3D +game one one of the display: very rapidely the display hangs but the +computer is still reachable through SSH. The same computer seems to +work fine under Trisquel 11 though (no hang for hours, though the +volounteer didn't test it for very long). So it could be a good idea +to try to track down these issues before the newer Trisquel version. + Note that "Ti" and other models may use a different underlying hardware revision than the plain version. It may also be that some unadvertised submodels don't have decent support, whereas others do. -- 2.46.0 From MAILER-DAEMON Thu Nov 07 16:43:18 2024 Received: from list by lists.fsf.org with archive (Exim 4.90_1) id 1t9AHe-0008DY-Ey for mharc-tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2024 16:43:18 -0500 Received: from mail.fsf.org ([2001:470:142::13]) by lists.fsf.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t8KKY-0001q1-TR for tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 09:14:51 -0500 Received: from cyberdimension.org ([2001:678:938:3ff::36] helo=rockpro64.cyberdimension.org) by mail.fsf.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_X25519__RSA_PSS_RSAE_SHA512__CHACHA20_POLY1305:256) (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1t8KKX-00HYJj-43 for tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 09:14:50 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; s=dkim; bh=7uO8R5MBzYp17Qr Dko2aXkpflPPzkR83+7Li8rSsCyw=; h=references:in-reply-to:date:subject: cc:to:from; d=cyberdimension.org; b=lKEITNUQl070JBItkgyXRo2kismlGjGdRH nr4ppLxLa0UK1p+2YeZ0PjZspt9KTRssLVoORGRVBYgl88c6nTU5KtAwXQUTEDjmw7gZHW RwxHb9HPVkJf8VIV1UlBVsL0UZUnrjtQ3FyvKF8j9wst9uOV6OI2w5+ViwSyEhmQUA5q65 CeQJat/IbhBCBzw61FVOMkgrXsPiuIVSnmJ66aSMNa2t+Z+1/yEJgqLBV7IK02SQqKdBVJ 1dJKcdeNEHVD5vLlviVKIgwtPLbzOvacmslI2s6Z1eOvUKfvVWDLHR1oAjhNQTfAAPhptc ScpLvuUWUqarn+yMlVLFUpjDZkwQ== Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rockpro64.cyberdimension.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 5327b43b; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 14:14:37 +0000 (UTC) From: Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli To: tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org Cc: Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli Subject: [PATCH v1 11/11] FSF: hardware: disable option roms: clarify shutdown / cold boot. Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2024 15:14:33 +0100 Message-ID: <20241105141433.27944-12-GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org> X-Mailer: git-send-email 2.46.0 In-Reply-To: <20241105141433.27944-1-GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org> References: <20241105141433.27944-1-GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2001:678:938:3ff::36; envelope-from=GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org; helo=rockpro64.cyberdimension.org X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 07 Nov 2024 16:43:08 -0500 X-BeenThere: tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2024 14:14:51 -0000 Most people don't know what 'cold boot' is, but they probably heard of sleep or suspend to RAM. Signed-off-by: Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli --- sviki/fsf/hardware/disable-option-roms-with-cbfstool.mdwn | 3 ++- 1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-) diff --git a/sviki/fsf/hardware/disable-option-roms-with-cbfstool.mdwn b/sviki/fsf/hardware/disable-option-roms-with-cbfstool.mdwn index 06cc1fa..f0dc417 100644 --- a/sviki/fsf/hardware/disable-option-roms-with-cbfstool.mdwn +++ b/sviki/fsf/hardware/disable-option-roms-with-cbfstool.mdwn @@ -116,4 +116,5 @@ If you are booted into GNU/Linux on the device: and if it complains about multiple flash chip definitions, see the commands above for the ThinkPad X200. -Do a shutdown, then a cold boot. +Do a real shutdown (do not go in sleep / suspend to RAM mode), then +boot again the computer. -- 2.46.0 From MAILER-DAEMON Thu Nov 07 16:43:19 2024 Received: from list by lists.fsf.org with archive (Exim 4.90_1) id 1t9AHf-0008E1-AY for mharc-tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2024 16:43:19 -0500 Received: from mail.fsf.org ([2001:470:142::13]) by lists.fsf.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t8KKY-0001pw-J4 for tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 09:14:50 -0500 Received: from cyberdimension.org ([79.143.250.36] helo=rockpro64.cyberdimension.org) by mail.fsf.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_X25519__RSA_PSS_RSAE_SHA512__CHACHA20_POLY1305:256) (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1t8KKW-00HYJU-9n for tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 09:14:50 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; s=dkim; bh=Vo/hu7NAW+2mVNg GOBdpfaXba+hXXwxd/sUR9nExQFs=; h=references:in-reply-to:date:subject: cc:to:from; d=cyberdimension.org; b=pnd4oY+DAPjCne7Wp/kWgdez3SdKpIBwEE 6DS7zHnHBHAQJFEeXUkrhT9OTC7hbQbA54fbBftbiZQA7TEDnNqlJQJo5yKSrRuoQ9Ycai GUmxpftQ1IHv4QerImzdaUhWkqS1ekbJ0h3VoCdOgRplwXLqyaTnKFpjKgCFDuVl9cG1Ir k0mDjtYH8CBLjqhfPVBN6BaYl8cXejjZsmXp2AVxuQ8kRScWhhexLr+DLyHHmFaRRsGSOS iRpaTA0x2Sm2vBn2buUVLHi3BJFIKuSDRwCw5wXG88CuV4v3ZR5SdTPJgYY/9npx2S4pI0 isT7tOYEo2yA6IO3QhnENLa0Rp8Q== Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rockpro64.cyberdimension.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 0a69ce72; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 14:14:36 +0000 (UTC) From: Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli To: tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org Cc: Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli Subject: [PATCH v1 09/11] FSF: hardware: disable option roms: update and point hardware/graphics-card to it. Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2024 15:14:31 +0100 Message-ID: <20241105141433.27944-10-GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org> X-Mailer: git-send-email 2.46.0 In-Reply-To: <20241105141433.27944-1-GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org> References: <20241105141433.27944-1-GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=79.143.250.36; envelope-from=GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org; helo=rockpro64.cyberdimension.org X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 07 Nov 2024 16:43:08 -0500 X-BeenThere: tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2024 14:14:51 -0000 Rationale: - GNU Boot now also exists and I'm assuming that it's probably preffered over Canoeboot by the FSF sysadmins as Canoeboot has a less long term approach (it changes things a lot, has features that depend on out of tree patches, etc). - I also added a bit of context. - Libreboot from 2016 only has GRUB and SeaBIOS images and it doesn't have 'seabios_grubfirst' hybrid images yet (images that uses SeaBIOS to load GRUB to workaround some issues with GRUB). GNU Boot just got rid of the hybrid images with the commit 6fa9af30ad276a6ebf3268238c0a31d291b92964 ("Remove images with the seabios_grubfirst main payload."). And the problem this article solves only occurs with SeaBIOS, and I've verified that in the Coreboot configuration for both a recent GNU Boot and Libreboot r20160907. - For the MAC address, I was told within a private mail by Tiberiu from Technoetical that they modified Libreboot images to use the computer MAC address, and they now do that with GNU Boot, so I included them as well. Signed-off-by: Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli --- .../disable-option-roms-with-cbfstool.mdwn | 56 ++++++++++++++----- sviki/fsf/hardware/graphics-cards.mdwn | 6 ++ 2 files changed, 47 insertions(+), 15 deletions(-) diff --git a/sviki/fsf/hardware/disable-option-roms-with-cbfstool.mdwn b/sviki/fsf/hardware/disable-option-roms-with-cbfstool.mdwn index 6ef9158..ce803a6 100644 --- a/sviki/fsf/hardware/disable-option-roms-with-cbfstool.mdwn +++ b/sviki/fsf/hardware/disable-option-roms-with-cbfstool.mdwn @@ -12,9 +12,14 @@ Contributions are welcome. See . # disable option roms with cbfstool -This method applies a hard-coded variable to the LibreBoot / Coreboot ROM that -tells it to not load external option roms. (LibreBoot from 2016 loads option -roms by default.) +This method applies a hard-coded variable to GNU Boot / Canoeboot / +Coreboot images that use SeaBIOS and tells it to not load external +option roms (like the video BIOS or tools from RAID or network cards +for instance). + +Images with SeaBIOS, of LibreBoot from 2016 or GNU Boot, loads option +roms by default. However Images with GRUB do not run option roms +(unless users run SeaBIOS from GRUB). ## documentation on this method @@ -26,11 +31,16 @@ If those pages are missing, visit or ## compile cbfstool -Clone the Coreboot git repo: +cbfstool is currently missing from many free distributions, especially +from Trisquel. See the [Tools section of the article on +Coreboot](https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Hardware/Upstream_projects/Coreboot#Tools) +on the LibrePlanet wiki for the status of tools. + +If you lack a package for cbfstool, clone the Coreboot git repository: git clone http://review.coreboot.org/coreboot.git -Compile cbfstool: +then compile cbfstool: cd coreboot cd util/cbfstool @@ -41,7 +51,7 @@ Compile cbfstool: If dependencies are missing, `libreboot_r20160907_util.tar.xz` has a compiled version at the `https://libreboot.org/download.html` mirrors. -## get the LibreBoot rom from the machine +## get the LibreBoot or GNU Boot rom from the machine Downloading the rom from the machine itself is a good approach so you don't have to worry about **setting the MAC address** to a non-generic value before @@ -49,25 +59,41 @@ writing the patched rom. If you are able to boot to GNU/Linux on the device: - flashrom -p internal -r libreboot.rom + flashrom -p internal -r gnuboot.rom -## patch the LibreBoot ROM +## patch the LibreBoot or GNU Boot ROM > *Controls option ROM execution for roms found on PCI devices (as opposed to > roms found in CBFS/fw_cfg). Valid values are 0: Execute no ROMs, 1: Execute > only VGA ROMs, 2: Execute all ROMs. The default is 2 (execute all ROMs).* - cbfstool libreboot.rom add-int -i 1 -n etc/pci-optionrom-exec - cbfstool libreboot.rom print + cbfstool gnuboot.rom add-int -i 1 -n etc/pci-optionrom-exec + cbfstool gnuboot.rom print + +## Add your MAC Address + +If you are an FSF sysadmin or bought a Thinkpad from Technoetical and +that you are using a fresh ROM image, don't forget to patch it so +there aren't **MAC collisions** as Libreboot or GNU Boot come with a +default MAC address on computers using the GM45 chipset (like the +ThinkPad X200) with the exception of the ThinkPad R500 as it uses a +Broadcom Ethernet controller instead. + +Alternatively, get the rom from the machine itself (see above). + +If you need to patch it, you can use ich9gen from +[ich9utils](https://notabug.org/libreboot/ich9utils.git) with +something like that (obviously change the MAC address below): + + ich9gen --macaddress 00:1f:16:80:80:80 -## write the LibreBoot ROM +The tool will then tell you how to modify your GNU Boot or Libreboot +image. -If you are using a fresh ROM image, don't forget to patch it so there aren't -**MAC collisions**. Alternatively, get the rom from the machine itself (see -above). +## write the LibreBoot or GNU Boot ROM If you are booted into GNU/Linux on the device: - flashrom -p internal -w libreboot.rom + flashrom -p internal -w gnuboot.rom Do a shutdown, then a cold boot. diff --git a/sviki/fsf/hardware/graphics-cards.mdwn b/sviki/fsf/hardware/graphics-cards.mdwn index a803ddb..067e7e4 100644 --- a/sviki/fsf/hardware/graphics-cards.mdwn +++ b/sviki/fsf/hardware/graphics-cards.mdwn @@ -38,6 +38,9 @@ Nvidia graphics card or chip require nonfree software to work: * The nvidia driver need to load and run some bytecode that is also stored somewhere in the memory chip of the graphic card. +See [[fsf/hardware/disable-option-roms-with-cbfstool]] for how to deal +with this issue. + Beside the video BIOS issue, another question is if these cards works in free distros. @@ -102,6 +105,9 @@ AMD graphics card or chip require nonfree software to work: bytecode (called AtomBIOS) that is also stored somewhere in the memory chip of the graphic card. +See [[fsf/hardware/disable-option-roms-with-cbfstool]] for how to deal +with this issue. + Beside the video BIOS issue, another question is if these cards works in free distros. -- 2.46.0 From MAILER-DAEMON Thu Nov 07 16:43:14 2024 Received: from list by lists.fsf.org with archive (Exim 4.90_1) id 1t9AHa-0008BV-5x for mharc-tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2024 16:43:14 -0500 Received: from mail.fsf.org ([2001:470:142::13]) by lists.fsf.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t8KKT-0001od-Ik for tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 09:14:47 -0500 Received: from cyberdimension.org ([79.143.250.36] helo=rockpro64.cyberdimension.org) by mail.fsf.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_X25519__RSA_PSS_RSAE_SHA512__CHACHA20_POLY1305:256) (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1t8KKR-00HYJU-2G for tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 09:14:45 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; s=dkim; bh=f8CTgZek4zGDxiE yTR9iVzDOzBVY3MdpOuu/TqN51pQ=; h=references:in-reply-to:date:subject: cc:to:from; d=cyberdimension.org; b=GUcoLQFnkoNGL5T4gJ+jEoI6KYV+kukYSb kxpyXZ+PTEfoE1HNOPYxawYTp+wXyXq68wUxX2TtxPEJrdS8Vx01WQW66NsI1apb/4wUMS 8RI+P3pB0NOuXiftHDVMS9BXBdUf0Rh/CgsKZdwudK19g/AIbQyA9YAz2YtcXjoeVlyHbV lFeSeNGCGlWvp2D23ZKMFUu0+IAmSpJmF1cIzNj0HCyyvdi/wxNWRScilWBiwzuRIa//H+ qyDq6faSwkz7+R7q7lyIkHykx4XvpoAwWipVLDJByiRVYeyvtCTqgKD/1VoUiOZUV5fQhU j+kzaGWof37eLtpS7ZOS/BnL26Rw== Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rockpro64.cyberdimension.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 1e9b6ec5; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 14:14:35 +0000 (UTC) From: Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli To: tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org Cc: Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli Subject: [PATCH v1 01/11] FSF: clarify how to contribute. Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2024 15:14:23 +0100 Message-ID: <20241105141433.27944-2-GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org> X-Mailer: git-send-email 2.46.0 In-Reply-To: <20241105141433.27944-1-GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org> References: <20241105141433.27944-1-GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=79.143.250.36; envelope-from=GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org; helo=rockpro64.cyberdimension.org X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 07 Nov 2024 16:43:08 -0500 X-BeenThere: tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2024 14:14:48 -0000 We are asked to send patches but it's not clear how to download the source code. In addition according rwp on #fsfsys on Libera Chat, it's also possible to contribute by sending small suggestions. Signed-off-by: Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli --- sviki/HowToAdminThisWiki.mdwn | 4 ++-- sviki/fsf.mdwn | 13 ++++++++++--- 2 files changed, 12 insertions(+), 5 deletions(-) diff --git a/sviki/HowToAdminThisWiki.mdwn b/sviki/HowToAdminThisWiki.mdwn index 2c92991..3f08d11 100644 --- a/sviki/HowToAdminThisWiki.mdwn +++ b/sviki/HowToAdminThisWiki.mdwn @@ -32,8 +32,8 @@ well (e.g. GNU Dia files). Do not use non-free file formats. -One-off contributions ---------------------- + One-off contributions +-------------------------------------------------------- We welcome improvements to the wiki! diff --git a/sviki/fsf.mdwn b/sviki/fsf.mdwn index 1482b19..becd2b8 100644 --- a/sviki/fsf.mdwn +++ b/sviki/fsf.mdwn @@ -66,9 +66,16 @@ ikiwiki at some point. ## Contributing Contributions are welcome. -Send patches to -. This -helps explain how to send a patch: . + +To contribute simple changes you can explain us what to modify in the +[tech-volunteer-meeting mailing +list](https://lists.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/tech-volunteer-meeting). + +Alternatively if you want to send patches, how to download the wiki +source code is explained in the [[One-off contributions +section|HowToAdminThisWiki#One-off-contributions]] of the +HowToAdminThisWiki page, and how to send a patch is explained here: +. Some documentation is somewhat duplicative of other sources like a man page, and it is here because it is the excerpt that FSF tech team or FSF -- 2.46.0 From MAILER-DAEMON Thu Nov 07 17:24:11 2024 Received: from list by lists.fsf.org with archive (Exim 4.90_1) id 1t9AvD-0000nN-NZ for mharc-tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2024 17:24:11 -0500 Received: from mail.fsf.org ([2001:470:142::13]) by lists.fsf.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t9AvC-0000nE-95 for tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2024 17:24:10 -0500 Received: from cyberdimension.org ([2001:678:938:3ff::36] helo=rockpro64.cyberdimension.org) by mail.fsf.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_X25519__RSA_PSS_RSAE_SHA512__CHACHA20_POLY1305:256) (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1t9Av8-002Fu6-H7 for tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2024 17:24:09 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; s=dkim; bh=ZaECQSL6XysEMbQ yV/Gu12xHdZo26WI1hdQ88ww5Rok=; h=references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to: from:date; d=cyberdimension.org; b=fOBNEikUg7y5Yg5sgNYztfC5XGH7s7K2X2q OXbI/rR8XcRvosra8ECKtF9lnpYO5xP1rIVWUl5dHLJ6cGHw01WxXzXCSaJvonaAj/hCAR /sSuWX+HzhTsZnAKqSXzFVvU8H6lvSnmqD0u4Fm/bkFZGG3pnXMk/nGB4cruKfGWROezUT Uae6rfsrZHfQ0QVFNNE6NnZhTJvDCjJOmVtRdhZrVRwEw3sJrhosmbHJfkJG1nJywsuir0 yozdn9cJewn3+ohLZ2EHxu8sHy1s9EeowE4FqOuOsDikukOni6mI8MSLdrTDCyclLqFihC q7MHMlep57Dp+BPgsoiBrjQ/CRg== Received: from primary_laptop (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rockpro64.cyberdimension.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 899f8ed9; Thu, 7 Nov 2024 22:24:01 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2024 23:23:57 +0100 From: Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli To: tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org Cc: Adrien 'neox' Bourmault Subject: Re: [PATCH v1 06/11] FSF: hardware: graphics-card: Nvidia: Warn about nonfree software. Message-ID: <20241107232357.26a5be4a@primary_laptop> In-Reply-To: <20241105141433.27944-7-GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org> References: <20241105141433.27944-1-GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org> <20241105141433.27944-7-GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 4.3.0 (GTK 3.24.41; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Sig_/ASYeyF/1_VsfvsKOl722OQX"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2001:678:938:3ff::36; envelope-from=GNUtoo@cyberdimension.org; helo=rockpro64.cyberdimension.org X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: tech-volunteer-meeting@fsf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2024 22:24:10 -0000 --Sig_/ASYeyF/1_VsfvsKOl722OQX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, On Tue, 5 Nov 2024 15:14:28 +0100 Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli wrote: > - > +Nvidia graphics card or chip require nonfree software to work: > + > + * If the display works during the boot (in GRUB for instance) it > + means that the boot software (the BIOS/UEFI, etc) ran the nonfree > + video BIOS that is stored on a memory chip inside the graphic > card. + > + * The nvidia driver need to load and run some bytecode that is also > + stored somewhere in the memory chip of the graphic card. > + > +Beside the video BIOS issue, another question is if these cards works > +in free distros. After some discussion on the topic with neox, the second bullet point may not be true 100% of the time: we didn't verify yet that the driver code that loads and run this nonfree code runs in all the cases (it might only run on laptops for instance). So I propose the following instead: > - > +Nvidia graphics card often uses nonfree software to work: If the > +display works during the boot (in GRUB for instance) it means that > the +boot software (the BIOS/UEFI, etc) ran the nonfree video BIOS > that is +stored on a memory chip inside the graphic card. > + > +The nouveau driver also has code that loads and run some nonfree code > +that is stored inside the same memory chip inside the graphic card. > We +don't know yet the precise conditions in which this code is run > +(someone would need to do very simple modifications to the driver to > +find out and review a bit the driver code) so we don't know yet if > +it's possible to use these GPU with 100% free software or not > +(assuming the boot software is configured not to run the nonfree > video +BIOS). > + > +Beside these two issues, another question is if these cards works in > +free distros. > + > +See for how to > +identify the family of an Nvidia card. For the people interested I've added more details on the second issue below. More details on the issue (optional): ------------------------------------- In the nouveau driver we have this code in drivers/gpu/drm/nouveau/nvkm/subdev/bios/init.c : > int =20 > nvbios_exec(struct nvbios_init *init) > { =20 > struct nvkm_bios *bios =3D init->subdev->device->bios; > =20 > init->nested++; > while (init->offset) { > u8 opcode =3D nvbios_rd08(bios, init->offset); > if (opcode >=3D ARRAY_SIZE(init_opcode) || > !init_opcode[opcode].exec) { > error("unknown opcode 0x%02x\n", opcode); > return -EINVAL; > } > =20 > init_opcode[opcode].exec(init); > } > init->nested--; > return 0; > } The nonfree instructions (opcodes) come from a zone inside the video BIOS. Inside nouveau we have the following function calls: run_digital_op_script -> nouveau_bios_run_init_table -> nvbios_init (drivers/gpu/drm/nouveau/dispnv04/disp.h) -> nvbios_exec (nvkm/subdev/bios/init.c) The run_digital_op_script is however called in 3 functions: call_lvds_manufacturer_script, run_lvds_table and run_tmds_table. LVDS is a display connector like HDMI or VGA that is found in laptops (it's for the internal screen). TMDS seems somewhat similar to LVDS but I never heard of it before so I've no idea if it's used in laptops or not or if it's a synonym to HDMI or DVI in this context. So the nonfree code most probably run on laptops but we have no idea if it also runs with a KGPE-D16 and a GPU card. Someone needs to replace the nvbios_exec function with prints and see if it works fine, or if the function is called. If these card can work without nonfree software, it would remove a huge limitation of 100% free software as we would be able to build desktop computers that run 100% free software and that are not limited to server use cases or limited desktop usage (no multi-display). Though without a free replacement for the video BIOS this would still be extremely inconvenient to use on mainboards that don't already have builtin display controller like the KGPE-D16. In the case of the KGPE-D16 both the builtin display controller and the nouveau GPU card can be wired to a display with multiple inputs (like VGA and HDMI) for a very convenient that allows to see why the computer isn't booting. 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